Allegra Thornton
Hogwarts Staff
Administrative Assistant Witch
^it's just me^
Posts: 2,420
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Post by Allegra Thornton on Jul 13, 2006 1:02:57 GMT -5
"It's not a real life," Allegra offered, barely looking up frm the notes she was writing. She took a moment to finish and then managed to meet the professor's eye as she concluded. "It can't think or make decisions. What ever you have animated is basically under your control... if you do the spell right, that is."
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Post by bloxam on Jul 14, 2006 16:28:47 GMT -5
"Is that so, Missy?" He replied to Reina, scooting onto the edge of the desk. He propped his arm on what looked like thin air and rested his tilted head on it. "You believe you can take an inanimate object such as that chair of yours and give it a consciousness? Give it the will to think and move? To come alive? Any half-witted dunce can turn a chair into a pig. But can you animate it was it is, without changing anything about its original composition? If you can, completely and perfectly, I'll take your place and you can teach this class. Savvy? I'll get paid for it nonetheless."
His attitude seemed very laid back about the entire ordeal. Perhaps he did not care about the students? Perhaps he did. Anyone that tried to label Thomas Bloxam so quickly was a fool as far as the man himself was concerned. A very, very big fool.
"And both right and wrong, my Ravenclaw lassie," Bloxam replied, pointing a finger in Allegra's direction, completely turning his attention for the time being. "It can think, it just cannot make a decision about anything that you do not allow it to. You set the perimeters for free will and free thought, how tight you make their perimeters says how much it can do. But no, it is not a real life, it is the imitation of a life; a puppet."
The hand attached to the arm perched on apparent air began to rub his chin in an idle manner. It found stubble. He needed to shave. "But yes if you do the spell right. So five points to Ravenclaw for that."
"Now, if we can set the perimeters, how come we don't have inanimate objects roaming around with complete free will and thought if it is possible? If someone wanted to do so, Merlin knows why, how come we do not see such too often? Or hardly at all?"
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Post by Brittany Garland on Jul 14, 2006 18:06:35 GMT -5
Brittany had looked up at Allegra's question in a daze, not even exactly knowing what she had asked. Thankfully she was saved from having to ask what she had said by the start of class. Turning her attention to the Professor, that she had just realized was new, she took out her notes. Finding a new piece of parchment, she scrawled in very neat handwriting, "Inanimate to Animate", across the top. Listening carefully as the class got interesting, she wrote down some things that the professor said, finding them very interesting.
It was truly something to wonder about really. The thought of an inanimate object being able to have thoughts and free will according to the perimeters that she would set was remarkable. Though it did bring up some rather curious questions. However, the professor had moved on before she had a chance to ask something. So she settled for writing her question down so that just in case he didn't answer it in his lesson later, she would remember to ask.
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Allegra Thornton
Hogwarts Staff
Administrative Assistant Witch
^it's just me^
Posts: 2,420
|
Post by Allegra Thornton on Jul 15, 2006 23:45:10 GMT -5
"Cause it's hard to do?" Allegra offered, only half joking. "I mean, the more you ask the object to do, the harder it is. Like, I can charm a spoon to stir a pot and stop when it needs to, but I can't get it to... make my bed for example. And I don't know if I'd consider it thinking or free will. Maybe more like programing the TiVo. It does what I tell it to do, and will even remind me of things or make recomendations, but it can't really make it's own decisions."
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Post by diablo on Jul 17, 2006 11:29:47 GMT -5
Reina saw the differences in what the man was asking and what she thought he was asking. Reina smirked at him as though saying 'you got me this time,' before she made a few notes.
"Agree with Allegra, plus you have to be a very strong witch or wizard. Doesn't it have to be soemthing the inanimate object can do. For instance you can't have teh spoon make your bed, because how can it. No arms, fingers, but stirring a pot of coffee is doable. Besides Complete free will would make it living, breathing, and that's not possible. That's like bringing the dead back to life."
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Post by bloxam on Jul 25, 2006 12:32:42 GMT -5
"Very good, very good. It seems some of this class has brains. Good, you might just graduate. Ten points to both Slytherin and Ravenclaw," he said, grinning. But something in that grin also suggested he was mocking them. Over what, it was hard to say.
"It does indeed have to be in the objects capacity to do. As well, as the wizards capacity. Completely free will is one of the most complex forms of magic there is, I cannot do it. The only wizard I believe could was Albus Dumbledore. And he was no ordinary wizard. The spoon was an excellent example. It can't make a bed, not unless you alter its form and give it arms and legs."
That mocking smile grew, "ah, but I do believe you misunderstood me. Free will does not mean you are a living and breathing creature. You do not have to be something that was originally animate to think once you are. If these inanimate objects were not able to think, then they could not preform the tasks we tell them to do. And like anything, if left to their own creations, if given no boundaries, they could operate without a mind telling them what they can or cannot do. But only operate in what they can physically and realistically do. The folks, is why this is incredibly hard. Your not just having an object move about, you're giving it a conscious and instructions on how it is suppose to live its life. You are taking something without a mind and then giving it one."
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Allegra Thornton
Hogwarts Staff
Administrative Assistant Witch
^it's just me^
Posts: 2,420
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Post by Allegra Thornton on Jul 25, 2006 12:52:37 GMT -5
"Wait, aren't we talking more about charms though?" Allegra asked, still getting confused. The line between charms and transfigurations was very clear and yet it still got messed up. It had actually been the conversation that had made her remeber the difference. "I would charm a spoon to stir a pot, but I'd have to transfigure it... change its form in some way to get it to make a bed. And it's the charm that gives it the boundries. It doesn't suddenly grow a brain."
She was still convinced the object would not, could not think for itself.
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Post by bloxam on Jul 30, 2006 19:30:38 GMT -5
"And you, my dear, just pointed out where I was trying to get with this discussion," Bloxam responded with a wide grin, beaming at the only brain in the room as it appeared to be. "Lets see, 15 points to Ravenclaw sounds fair enough." "If this was simple charms work, a ridiculous concept, then yes, I could bewitch the spoon and be on my merry way. But Transfiguration is an entirely different concept. You believe that it is impossible to transfigure something into thinking, little Missy? Well, consider inanimate to animate transfiguration on a lower scale. Say, turning a desk into a pig. The desk could not think, could not move, could do nothing but sit there. But yet, you change its composition completely and into a living, breathing, thinking animal. Or, animate to inanimate. You can change a raven into a goblet. Thus, you take the ability to breath, to think, to live away. But you don't doubt that doing such is impossible, do you? All of you can do such things by now." The man shoved his hands into his pockets and eyed the class waiting for an objection to that. His gaze, however, remained mostly fixed on the Ravenclaw Head Girl. "This is the same thing, except we are doing an internal transfiguring, without accompanying it with an external. Its much easier to give something a brain if you can change it into something that holds that brain as well, which is why such is taught to you first. Are you technically making the object come alive. No. But you are internally changing what it is to something that can think, that is able to have thoughts. And therefore, as it is still enclosed as, say, a spoon, the spoon becomes able to think. Even if the mind inside is not its original matter." Bloxam was not sure if he had lost the class or not. They were seventh years and they were N.E.W.Ts students, but that did not make them capable of grasping a concept, that as it looked, none of them had ever heard before. Well, yes they heard it, but they had never put the puzzle pieces together. Now he wondered if they could. "And that leads into tonights homework. Three rolls of parchment on Mental Transfiguration. Giving something thought. Due next Friday. Complete your research well as you'll need it to complete the lesson on Friday. Hope you all like Wizards' Chess, you'll be walking out with your own game. If you have any questions still, feel free to remain behind, otherwise, class dismissed!" (( Ta da! Class over folks. Topic will remain unlocked in case this debate wishes to be carried more, I'd love it if it was. Homework is STRICTLY IC, no actual essays, please. ))
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Allegra Thornton
Hogwarts Staff
Administrative Assistant Witch
^it's just me^
Posts: 2,420
|
Post by Allegra Thornton on Jul 30, 2006 23:30:34 GMT -5
While she was pleased with the points, she still wasn't sure about the topic of discussion. Perhaps the professor had a different idea of what thinking actually was. Many people discussed computers as thinking, but they really didn't. And yes, she might be able to conjur a lump of something that could be called a brain that would have electical impulses and would be able to understand directions, make decisions and give suggestions, but it wasn't really thinking for itself. It was just doing want it was spelled to do.
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